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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 10:13:17 AM
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Thought I’d post some basic info to help folks comply with the rules and avoid being shut down or having to pay penalties.
There are two definitions of a commercial motor vehicle (CMV.) One has to do with CDLs and drug & alcohol (D & A) testing and the other has to do with DOT number applications, driver qualification, i.e. DOT med cert, operation of a CMV, parts and accessories, hours of service (HOS), and maintenance.
Just so you understand, the US Dept of Transportation has jurisdiction over Hazardous Materials (HM), CDLs, D & A testing and some issues associated with insurance in intrastate (within one state) and interstate (between states). Therefore, the federal rules apply to both interstate and intrastate commerce.
For CMVs in intrastate commerce there are occasions when a motor carrier must obtain a US DOT number for intrastate commerce. Part 385.403 identifies several HMs that require a HM Safety Permit (not to be confused with HM Registration.) For example if a motor carrier transports more than 55 pounds of Division 1.1, 1.2 or 1.3 explosives they must obtain a US DOT number regardless of whether they are involved in inter or intrastate commerce.
This message will focus on property carriers so the rules as they apply to passenger carriers will not be mentioned.
A CDL is broke into three categories:
Class A = Combination vehicle with a GCWR of 26,001 pounds or more inclusive of a trailer with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more.
Class B = Single vehicle with a GVWR or 26,001 pounds or more, may tow trailers with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.
Class C = Special CDL to transport placarded quantities of HM in a vehicle with a GVWR less than 26,001 pounds.
If the vehicle you operate requires a CDL then you must have D & A testing.
If the vehicle you operate does not require a CDL, but you have a CDL? Then D & A testing is not required. As a matter of fact, you must use non-Federal forms for the non-DOT D & A test.
HM has two Tables; Table 1 requires any quantity transported to have placards applied, i.e. Class 1.1 explosives. Table 2 requires placards for 1,001 pounds or more, i.e. Class 3 (gasoline).
A HM endorsement is required on the CDL to transport placarded quantities of HM.
Things you may not know regarding HM:
Diesel fuel maybe reclassified to a combustible material allowing the diesel fuel to be transported in any package of less than 119 gallons as long as the package doesn’t leak, i.e. a storage tank from Tractor Supply.
GASOLINE is a regulated product regardless of the quantity transported. Private carriers, i.e. landscapers, may transport gasoline in approved containers up to 8 gallons with less than 440 pounds aggregate weight. The exceptions for private carriers is labeled as Materials of Trade (MOTS). For hire carriers are not authorized to use the MOTS exception from the HM Regulations (HMR). Gasoline must be transported in a fuel tank designed in-accordance-with (IAW) Part 393.65 and 393.67 or an approved Performance Oriented Package (POP) IAW the HMR.
Many here indicate they do not transport HM; however, they indicate they transport boats, motor cycles, and cars. All three items mentioned are a Class 9 HM and listed in the HM Table mandating $1,000,000 of insurance:
Engines, internal combustion, flammable liquid powered, 9, UN3166
Vehicle, flammable gas powered, 9, UN3166
Vehicle, flammable liquid powered 9 UN3166
For domestic transportation Class 9 HM is excepted from placards, markings, labels, and shipping papers. However, $1,000,000 of insurance is required.
Carriers who transport motor vehicles with less than the required limit of $1,000,000 face an Acute violation per 387.7(a). I noticed several carrier have $1,000,000 on file; however, their MC number indicates they only require $750,000. Not having the $1,000,000 on file is a violation of 387.303.
Now for non-CDL CMVs, the following applies to vehicles with a GVWR or GCWR of 10,001 pounds or more:
The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR) start at 10,001 pounds for a single vehicle or combination of vehicles, i.e. ¾ ton F-250 with a GVWR of 9,000 pounds towing a trailer with a GVWR of 4,000 pounds. All of the FMCSR apply to vehicles in interstate commerce. Some states have adopted the FMCSR for intrastate commerce; therefore, the rules may apply at any time.
There is no charge for the US DOT number. There is a $300 fee for an MC number.
If you transport non-regulated commodities, i.e. hay, beef on the hoof, or other non-processed goods or your own property in interstate commerce all you require is a US DOT number. Keep in mind interstate commerce is geared by the freight and not the destination of the vehicle.
If you transport processed goods for hire you require a US DOT and MC number. If you are stopped without a MC number when required you will be placed out-of-service (OOS) per 49 CFR Part 392.9a until you acquire a MC number or lease onto a carrier with a MC number.
For a driver to be qualified to operate in interstate commerce they must meet the requirements listed in Part 391. Part 391.51 list forms that must be kept in the driver qualification (DQ) file.
Every driver must have a DOT medical certificate.
Must be over 21 years of age.
Must have a valid license for the type of vehicle operated. NOTE: for a single vehicle with a GVWR of 16.001 – 26,000 pounds requires a Class C operator’s license, not to be confused with a Class C CDL.
Hours of Service (HOS):
1. No more than 11 hours of driving without a 10 hour break.
2. No driving after the 14th consecutive hour of coming on-duty, the only thing that stops the 14 hour clock is 8 hours in the sleeper berth. Must have 10 hours off-duty to reset the 11/14 hour clocks.
3. No driving after the 60th hour of driving and on-duty time in seven consecutive days. Must be used by carriers that do not operate seven days a week.
4. No driving after the 70th hour of driving and on-duty time in eight consecutive days.
The 60/70 hour clocks maybe reset with 34 consecutive hours off-duty.
I will not discuss the sleeper berth provision at this time.
The driver’s logs must be true and complete. The driver must have the current day plus the seven previous days in their possession when stopped or be placed OOS.
Drivers must forward the logs to the carriers within 13 days.
Carriers must retain the logs and all supporting documents for at least six months.
MAINTENANCE: Part 396
Carriers must have a scheduled maintenance program with a method to show when the last service was done and the next service is due.
Each vehicle (truck and trailer) must have a maintenance file and periodic inspection.
Daily vehicle inspection reports (DVIR) must be retained for at least 90 days. Carriers with only one vehicle are excepted from having to complete DVIRs.
For more information regarding the FMCSR visit:
www.fmcsa.dot.gov
For more questions regarding the HMR visit:
www.phmsa.dot.gov
Be safe.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 2:56:16 PM
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Thanks for posting that. We are just looking into this. Husband wants out of big trucks after 25yrs. We want to do it right but dont want to overdo it either. They will take your money for something you dont need. He's on the road now (cant be home X-mas and New Years) and asked me to look into this.
I still cant get a clear call on transporting one bike at a time in a covered pickup truck. From a phone call to FMCSA's 800 number I got that we would be considered a for hire property carrier. As such would need mc# but not dot#. since its a single unit never over about 7K it does not fall under regulated commercial vehicles. So we are a commercal vehicle but we are not??? Everything I see, read, and am told we do not rate due to the low weight.
As for the gas, was told today by FMSCA that its such a small amount (under 5 gallons) and in the approved tank for that bike it would not require HAZMAT handling or placards. This should be a DOT decision to me. Our state DOT was gone for the holiday so I'll have to wait till MOnday to ask them.
If we fall under DOT's rules do we even need a log book or to stop at scales? The whole idea is to get away from them but still do a little funded retirement travel. The few hundred dollars isnt the problem, its being as legal as we need to be. This weighs heavily on if we'll even do this.
I'll buy authority all day and the proper insurance by all means. But can we just cruise on past scales? Do we still display the mc#? if not what DOT man is going to pull over a pickup with a bike in it? And if he does, I'm exempt from his rules???
These are things much better answered by someone not in a DOT uniform on the side of the highway.
We are getting as many opinions as we can and you seem to know it rather well.
Happy New Year
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 10:13:17 AM
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“I still cant get a clear call on transporting one bike at a time in a covered pickup truck. From a phone call to FMCSA's 800 number I got that we would be considered a for hire property carrier. As such would need mc# but not dot#. since its a single unit never over about 7K it does not fall under regulated commercial vehicles. So we are a commercal vehicle but we are not??? Everything I see, read, and am told we do not rate due to the low weight.”
Based on what I have read, if the vehicle GVWR is 10,000 pounds or less then no MC number is required. I want to emphasize the weight is not to be confused with the GVWR. The GVWR is assigned by the manufacturer. If the vehicle has dual rear wheels chances are the rules apply.
”As for the gas, was told today by FMSCA that its such a small amount (under 5 gallons) and in the approved tank for that bike it would not require HAZMAT handling or placards. This should be a DOT decision to me. Our state DOT was gone for the holiday so I'll have to wait till MOnday to ask them.”
The motorcycle is a Class 9 HM and if the rules apply, you’ll be required to have $1,000,000 of insurance.
”If we fall under DOT's rules do we even need a log book or to stop at scales? The whole idea is to get away from them but still do a little funded retirement travel. The few hundred dollars isnt the problem, its being as legal as we need to be. This weighs heavily on if we'll even do this.”
If the vehicle has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more you will be required to have aDQ file, periodic inspection, vehicle maintenance file, and keep a log book. The requirement to stop at scales is based on each state’s laws. I cannot think of a state that requires vehicles with a GVWR of less than 16,000 pounds to stop.
”I'll buy authority all day and the proper insurance by all means. But can we just cruise on past scales? Do we still display the mc#? if not what DOT man is going to pull over a pickup with a bike in it? And if he does, I'm exempt from his rules???”
If the vehicle has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more you will be required to display your company name and “US DOT XXXXXX” on each side of the power unit.
As mentioned earlier, state law set the standards for who stops at the scales. Most states require CMVs with a GVWR of 16,000 pounds or more to stop, However, I would recommend you purchase a Motor Carrier’s Atlas and check the local laws.
”These are things much better answered by someone not in a DOT uniform on the side of the highway.”
Amen to that.
Happy New Year!
Be safe.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 2:56:16 PM
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Thank you Mike...Congrats on your award! Keep em straight out there. Yes I read your profile before posting.
"Based on what I have read, if the vehicle GVWR is 10,000 pounds or less then no MC number is required. I want to emphasize the weight is not to be confused with the GVWR. The GVWR is assigned by the manufacturer. If the vehicle has dual rear wheels chances are the rules apply."
Understood. Single rear tires on a GMC 2500. GVWR 9,200lbs.
"The motorcycle is a Class 9 HM and if the rules apply, you’ll be required to have $1,000,000 of insurance."
Looks like they wont, which poses another question. We will have it heavily over insured. Better safe than sorry. Question: What type of biz license should we have?? What would you like to see when you are in uniform on the side of the road?
"If the vehicle has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more you will be required to have aDQ file, periodic inspection, vehicle maintenance file, and keep a log book. The requirement to stop at scales is based on each state’s laws. I cannot think of a state that requires vehicles with a GVWR of less than 16,000 pounds to stop.
If the vehicle has a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more you will be required to display your company name and “US DOT XXXXXX” on each side of the power unit."
Again 9,200 so none of this would apply to our situation. We could do it in a smaller truck but with the extended cab and long bed this one rides like a Caddy.
As mentioned earlier, state law set the standards for who stops at the scales. Most states require CMVs with a GVWR of 16,000 pounds or more to stop, However, I would recommend you purchase a Motor Carrier’s Atlas and check the local laws.
Have two of them. One here one in the truck. Have seen many signs saying Commercial Vehicles and pick ups with trailers, but never just pickup trucks.
”These are things much better answered by someone not in a DOT uniform on the side of the highway.”
Amen to that.
I now have this very funny image in my head of a DOT top Cop in his pajama's pecking away at a keyboard.... LOL
Happy New Year!
To you as well Wishes for a Safe and Happy New Year. If we are ever in the area Hubby says we owe you a cup of hot Coffee.
I only hope others will read this and ask your advice before going off half cocked and then pleading ignorance of the laws when they get pulled over.
Be safe.
We will try our best. Thanks again.
My Top Tip for 2009 - If you are running non-compliant you better stay more than 70 miles from Chicago or you may get the chance to have Mike explain this face to face
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 10:13:17 AM
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“Looks like they wont, which poses another question. We will have it heavily over insured. Better safe than sorry. Question: What type of biz license should we have?? What would you like to see when you are in uniform on the side of the road?”
Since the rules don’t apply I’ll make some friendly suggestions. Most states require proof of automobile insurance in the vehicle. The amount of insurance should be discussed with your insurance agent. You may want to acquire some sort of professional insurance to cover the business in the event a client wants to seek litigation for their property.
“I now have this very funny image in my head of a DOT top Cop in his pajama's pecking away at a keyboard.... LOL”
Don’t know about the DOT top Cop title. I spend the majority of my time at the carrier’s place of business. Usually a pair of Dockers and cotton long sleeve shirt.
Not much of a PJ person, more t-shirt and sweat pants to lounge around the house. WTMI…
Hope the information is of use and always glad to be of assistance.
Be safe.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 2:56:16 PM
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Thanks Again it is so kind of you to take time to assist people on here. Husband is very excited and we look forward to putting our retirement plan into play. He wants to run FL to TX and something back to AL or maybe GA/FL, things he can do in a few days out and back, NO SNOW!, were his exact words. We will have to owe ya that coffee for awhile. Unless you come South after retirement.
To all TSP's current and future read and heed these rules.
Our most sincere respect to all the honest legal haulers out there hustling loads everyday. Trust me we know exactly what your feeling and talking about Been there done that got the t-shirt(s).
To those that are not: is it worth EVERYTHING you have now or will ever have? Is that few bucks profit worth it.....tick...thats how long it takes to become involved in an accident.
Notice how the "evil" DOT man always signs off with Be Safe?
Happy New Year!
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/28/2008 2:56:16 PM
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| Talking to my Husband on the phone and he cracked me up when he said after all these years doing the right thing I've sort of been placed "out of service" forever by a DOT guy in a pair of sweats....LMAO! Thanks Again Mike. I just had to tell you that.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/19/2007 9:07:44 AM
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A few followup clairifications
""Must have a valid license for the type of vehicle operated. NOTE: for a single vehicle with a GVWR of 16.001 – 26,000 pounds requires a Class C operator’s license, not to be confused with a Class C CDL.""
This may fall under [base] State guidelines
In Mass, there are only 5 cats A_B_C_D_E
ABC are CDL > D is under 26K and M is moto
Also, a frequently overlooked issue [Q&A'd by local truck enforcement]
If you are commercial, your vehicles "registered" weight has to be based on GCVW >Gross Combined Weight of maximum rolling load of truck and trailer package and cargo.....
As in,
A truck GVW of 9500lbs that weighs 6000lbs and tows a car tralier with a GVW of 7000lbs and 5000lb cap, would make the trucks registration be 16,000lbs
I believe this is similar to "apportioned" when used for over GCVW limits?
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/19/2007 9:07:44 AM
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| Oops, sorry can't add>>>> 16,500 registered weight
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 1/3/2009 10:26:11 AM
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Keeping my Class A CDL...just in case this doen't work out.
Thanks
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